I'm putting all publishers on a stop: thanks for your support guys!

Perhaps Mark Cashmore of Smiths News could be tempted?
After all he has Bertrams at his disposal.

I wish you'd get your facts right with regards to the discount publishers give to Amazon - they do not get a much bigger discount than other retailers - they actually fund their huge discounts themselves and in many cases either aren't making a profit or even a loss on the big titles. I'm not saying it's not a tragedy to be losing the "proper" bookshops as I do think it's very sad but blame amazon and the supermarkets for using the titles as loss leaders, not necessarily the publishers!!!

This is of course tragic and publishers always react by turning the supply tap off . I dont think that Borders has any value as an entity [I have been researching this]but the acquisition of the leases for individual locations is a probability. One upside is Waterstones will have less competition and will have its cost stucture under control , to benefit the bottom line. The hub will add great value from the New Year too . .

I could not agree more with Anon. The Publishers were not the ones to start discounts at all - we were encouraged to plead with Waterstone's, Borders and WH Smith's to be allowed to join in.

3/2's led to more sales but untimately it is a combination of opportunities that has led the book buyers to KNOW they only have to pay a high price for a book if it is in short supply. If a book is popular, then it will be given away by a retailer. Sadly, Borders were forced to join in. When the large retailers have decided small is beautiful, we'll be back to little shops with booksellers who love books, and people really very happy to pay a tenner for a book. It will be great, but it will take a few years and sorry nods of the head to get there.

Anon said "I wish you'd get your facts right with regards to the discount publishers give to Amazon - they do not get a much bigger discount than other retailers"
This might be the case although how do you measure 'much bigger discount'? Also, how many independent bookshops charge for placement of titles in their shops? Non! Waterstones charge for everything! Publishers have to take some of the blame! It's about time publishers got smarter!

Has it been a slow news week for the bookseller? Jesus, this is now the fourth article saying the same thing. There is no new news here. All you are suceeding in doing is spreading panic to those unfortunate to be affected by this. Please have some journalistic integrity.

There seems to be some confusion over want publishers supply Amazon or the supermarkets at and a assumed bias that we create an unfair playing-field towards them at the expense of the bookseller.
I'm happy enough to say what discount we supply to Amazon at - 60%, but, we don't give them "new titles" or many hardbacks first up and limit the selection (currently we allow 715 titles out of 4,500). The rest come through wholesale to Amazon at 35% to 45% dependent on type of book.
We don't supply Aphrohead, Play, or any others directly except The Book Depository, who get 50% - the same we give to Borders directly!
We don't supply to Supermarkets.
As an independent publisher of medium size and over 100 years old we have a tradition of wanting to support the high street bookseller (after all they are our bread and butter) but from our perspective Borders has been run into the ground over the last two years!
I'm very sad for the great staff and the excellent shops and it would be a great loss to everyone.
Undoubtably though it's the four/six big megahouses of publishing that eventually effect the (declining) margins in the retail market most. But it's a mistake to blame them for the prices books are sold at - even if they supplied Amazon/supermarkets at low discounts through Berts/Gards the customers can sell at what they like!!
Both can afford books (or major titles) as loss leaders to drive footfall - and ultimately it's a question of "last man standing" reaping the reward in the marketplace

Coffee Drinker, with regard to getting your facts right before making such statements. You may want to also correct wikipedia which states that

"In March 1997 the Restrictive Practices Court ruled that the Net Book Agreement was against the public interest. It was therefore ruled illegal."

Independent Publisher:
There's more than one way to give discount as other posters have recognised. Extended credit, payment for front of store display, unlimited returns - the variations are endless. None of these are offered to the independents. I struggle along on 35-40% discount on 30 days credit and no support for any promotion I might choose to do and you still think its OK to hand out 60% to Amazon and 50% to the likes of Borders?

So, anyone agree with this?:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/basheerakhan/100004279/no-more-b...

Really? My facts are right because you cut and paste the point you want to make without giving the full picture "In September 1995 several major publishers (including HarperCollins and Random House) withdrew from the agreement" This was before with was deemed illegal and was probably the cause of the case being brought. But "As of 2009, 500 independent bookshops had closed since the demise of the agreement" Why is it deemed illegal in the UK and not France and Germany where booksales are healthy?

Only to a point, Borders Monkey - retention of title rarely works as
A) the book may have already been sold - what then?
B) After it has been out on the shelf, re packed, sent back to wholesaler they are not always in great nick, and unsaleable
c) when the administrators get in, publshers only get a small amount back.

Borders problems are of it's own making - not the store staff who I have always found to be excellent. But upper management have screwed this company. Much the same as the book chain where I work!

well we all knew this was comin but hoping it wouldn't. supermarkets don't care they lose enough money on books game and they make money on food so they don't care about the little man. Borders and other shop struggle as it is. i hope we survive

Independent Publisher:
You and me both! This is my 43rd year in the business and I have to say I fear the end of publishing/bookselling, as we have known it, is fast approaching. With library funding in jeopardy and major bookshop players going down the available outlets for the printed word are fast reaching that crucial tipping point for a lot of independents - booksellers and publishers - where it just isn't worth the candle.
Publishers can devolve into e-book publishers but I forsee problems with keeping e-texts within those vital copyright boundaries.

Its all looking a bit grim.

Ray, my own personal opinion is that Philip Downer did the deal with Johnson (possible financed privately by Johnson) in order to maximise the asset stripping potential of the chain itself. In my eyes I have seen nothing to suggest that Downer had any long term strategy nor did he forsee a long term goal for the company. He merely wanted access to that which is worth money. The sale of the Oxford Street lease alone was a good clue as to the intentions. The headline of the story is about publishers being in the dark, well they can join the staff in that position. There has been nothing going out to staff to tell them anything to the contrary. Wouldn't shock me if there never is and when the administrators come in then Downer will never be heard from again, save maybe for a brief public schoolboy style cackle as he counts his cash!

i think downer knew exactly what he was doing in the summer when the 5 stores were closed, a few of which were making a good turnover compared to others. the state of products available within the stores right now for xmas is terrible, and moral amongst staff is also bad.

downer will make some decent cash, that was his intent. No one has yet talked to any staff about redundancies, can you imagine how the staff are feeling?

its obvious he intended to run the business into the ground and close the company down over xmas, lets just hope someone who has a passion for keeping borders alive steps in and stops this nightmare from reaching the horrible end all these reports are eager to see happen!

It amuses me that we continue to talk of Borders as a bookshop - if it were still a bookshop then this problem would not be happening. Borders has alienated its loyal customer base by slowly eroding its unique position in the high street. Comfortable sofas, a very wide choice of books, and a relaxed approach to service have been replaced by totally unrelated clearance stock brought in from other failed businesses, shelves full of repetitions of 'popular' pulp titles, and an attitude to customer service which causes them to appear desperate. Waterstones has gladly taken up the original and successful Borders business model and made it its own, while Borders continues its descent into shabby, and frankly dirty, disarray. Stores which once had a pleasingly non-capitalist, comfortable feel are now clogged with junk, dust, and an air of uncaring money-grabbing. The book market is nothing without a passion for knowledge and entertainment, and the plight of Borders demonstrates what happens when greed for capital is allowed to become the principal end in the distribution of knowledge.

Well as the name says, I'm a former Borders employee and I'll be honest with you, I saw this coming twelve months ago and am shocked that the company is still afloat now, albeit barely.

This is not some sudden change in circumstances, as a company Borders has failed to hit a profit for at least 36 months with front line staff pushed harder and harder to get sales. However the company has always priced itself out of the market against competitors. Add to this a somewhat bizarre store placement strategy (Out of town retail parks that play home to the likes of Comet and World of Leather do not tend to be the book buyers natural habitat) and it all adds up to something that unintentionally has set itself up to fail.

Downer has to take some of the blame, and the credit crunch hasn't helped at all, but some consideration must be made towards a business model that has never truly meshed with the UK shopper. I really do hope that somebody picks up the company and completely rethinks the trading model as if no rescue is even attempted a lot of people will find themselves out of work and hunting for jobs in a market sector that has more applicants than available jobs.

Seriously Julian, a comment about the editing process that includes the most shocking examples of grammar, punctuation, and syntax mistakes, that I have had the pleasure to witness. What you have managed to achieve though, is a smile on the faces of my collegues and I as we check this thread to try and glean a tiny dot of information about the future of our jobs.
Bless you Julian for bringing a bit of light entertainment to our dreary day.

Glad it brings a smile- which we all need at the moment- but it does highlight the problem with free books on the internet. A book that has been through a professional process, bound and printed is what the industry should strive for and the price should reflect this professionalism.

I couldn't agree with you more. btw 10/10 for that entry. I think my career prospects as your future editor have been greatly reduced. damn.

@ philip.jones

I can confirm this email is correct.

Just would like to remain anonymous for now...