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Indies call on government to fix book prices
01.01.70 | Charlotte Williams
Independent booksellers say the government should step in to fix the price of books after the Booksellers Association called on the coalition to do more to maintain bookshops on the high street.
BA c.e.o. Tim Godfray appealed for help from the government and publishers this week to ensure bookshops continue to exist on Britain's high streets after the trade body's membership figures fell 20% in six years, with independent bookshop membership falling by 26% in the same timeframe.
He asked for central and local government to give business rate relief for shops with a cultural and educational value; called for cheaper parking in towns centres; and said town centre planning should be more carefully thought out to prevent community hubs from becoming ghost towns.
However, while the indies The Bookseller spoke to were in support of the BA taking a stance to help maintain high street bookselling, they said the real issue was the discounting done by chains, supermarkets and Amazon which presents the biggest threat—and called on the BA to lobby the government to do more to prevent it.
Ron John, owner of Mabecron Books in the West Country, said: "The BA is good but it could do a little bit more. There are issues about rates and parking, but in all honesty it is about pricing. Spain, Germany and Italy have rules that stop booksellers from discounting books—they go around the EU rules. I would primarily like to see the government protecting the prices of books. We should have similar European protection on prices, although rates and parking are also very important."
Nik Housman, co-founder of the Alliance of Radical Booksellers, said: "There have been small interventions by the governments in France and Germany to help protect bookselling, so if anything can be done to replicate that . . . I believe anecdotally they have had some successes."
In response, Godfray told The Bookseller: "The BA Council has taken the view up to now that there are too many hurdles to surmount for the NBA to be reintroduced. Furthermore, it has to be recognised that in the future it would be very difficult to prevent an internet bookseller from outside the European Union selling English books at a discount into a UK fixed-price market. The internet has changed the backdrop. But the BA Council will continue to keep the matter under review."
Earlier this week, Godfray said in a statement: "At a time when literacy is an issue and libraries are under threat from government cuts, we need to build a coalition of publishers, government and consumers to provide opportunities for the passionate and creative entrepreneurs who run bookshops on our high streets to thrive." The BA has issued new point-of-sale material [pictured], which it hopes will underline the importance of bricks-and-mortar bookshops.
Ursula Mackenzie, chair of the Trade Publishers Council, said publishers have enormous interest in seeing as wide a variety of bookselling outlets "as humanly possible". She said: "It is down to the publishers to supply really good books, beautifully packaged and well priced. Publishers supply the books and retailers know how best to sell them—but the more communication we have got the better."
A spokesperson for the department for communities and local government said in the next few months the government planned to give local councils power to set their own business rates and offer targeted discounts to businesses they think "deserve support".
The spokesperson added that Whitehall rules that put pressure on councils to cut the number of parking spaces and push up parking charges in town centres have now been abolished, and councils have to consider the long-term impact of new out-of-town retail developments on town centres.
TheBookseller
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Local councils setting business rates will probably lead to even great anomalies than at present where the costs of town centre management (which largely favours the corporate chain stores) is added to the national UBR.
The NBA is dead and buried ; it should have survived in some form but that is all history.
The following article illustrates that even in Germany quality bookshops values are being eroded by "browsers" who later go and buy on-line from the discounters. (The dialogue is between two iconic publishers and covers varied subjects)
http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/art/reading_room/320.nomen_est...
No single body of traders deserve special concessions to survive.
I would have more sympathy with some of the whingers if they were willing to accept the principle of firm sale (even Gerry Johnson seriously considered "firm sale" for Waterstone's)
In my opnion, the only way in which most indie b&m bookshops will survive is by having an eclectic range, part of which should be "exclusive" to the business.
The government needs to examine the predatory pricing on Amazon - this affects other high street trades ; there are many instances where Amazon deliberately prices books at unrealistic discount even though they know that they have been refused direct supply by the publishers. Surely Amazon is breaking many national and international anti-trust laws ; it is one thing to discount to compete, quite another to discount to destroy a market sector.
I have to agree with Clive above - expecting to be a special case is not the answer for bookshops, or indeed any other segment of retail.
The book industry needs to be sustainable and profitable in it's own right, and that means competing for shopper appeal more effectively.
In response to this article i have written a more detailed discussion of what's wrong and what booksellers can do to improve their customer experience
http://t.co/IOgOEaNE
The NBA isn't coming back.
It wasn't the government that ended it. It was a voluntary agreement and people in the trade - stupidly in my opinion - broke it.
Absolutely!
I would have to agree, it seems like the equivalent of the horse drawn carriage makers calling for the re-introduction of Red Flag laws.
The real problem is that booksellers are not just competing against other booksellers, they are also competing against TV, video games, facebook, and all the other things that people can do in their spare time. Pushing up the price of books across the board will just discourage bookreading further.
It's not going to happen. The world's changed. Move on.
I'm curious to know whether this would work in practice. Surely people know roughly what the full price of a hardback or paperback is? If you look at gaming or music, neither product carries r.r.p.s on the back but mass market retailers still make a huge deal of the big discount offers you can get from them.
Many illustrated titles are published for the international market and don't have a printed rrp ; removal of printed rrp would be of little benefit.
I like a poster with arrows on as much as the next person and i'm sure the message wont be lost on all but the most stupid of individuals, but does anyone else think it implies you should "Find it here (in our bookshop), but ---------> Buy it over here (in Sainsburys)" ?
Sometimes the crass ignorance of some of the industry takes my breath away. Why should the government have anything to do with the price of books? or magazines, or potatoes, or bicycles? Do we still yearn for the days of state ownership and control of industry? Have I missed a public mood shift to live in 1970's Soviet Russia?
The effect of price controls on books would lead to lower sales (anyone betting on Jamie Oliver sales holding up at £25 a pop?) and greater margins for the giants.
Apart from this, how will borders be policed? We are pretty powerless to control Amazon selling CDs from Jersey just to shave the Vat.
The way that almost everything physical is being sold is changing rapidly. We are time poor, and now cash poor. Price and time are everything. I realised at about 5.45 last night that i had nothing to read for the weekend. I went onto Amazon and bought two good paperbacks for less than the cost of one in an indie, and they have just arrived. That is two book sales where there might have been one, and I did not need to leave the house. It is the future for the mass market.
As Clive and Rick above have pointed out, specialism in location and range are key, combined with a huge passion for customer service. Indies should not try and compete with Amazon and Sainsburys - compete with the specialist cookshop, deli, chocolatier, boutique clothes shop etc with a niche product the people will want to buy at a premium price in a location where they are wanting to spend money [eg holiday]. And focus effort on getting them into the shop and keeping them there, with a great customer experience - be it coffee, authors, armchairs, food or pets!
I understand how indie booksellers feel - but I don't think fixed prices would help them. Most people don't want to spend £10 to £20 on a book on a regular basis, esp. not in this economy.
As an example, I overheard some women in a W.H. Smith who were looking for a book to read, but on realising the prices, bought some gossip magazines instead.
There's a lot of competition out there & books need to be affordable or aimed at niche markets with money.
Hi,
The picture had to be cropped to fit the space, but the poster also has the taglines "Keep books on the high street" and "Celebrate bookshops in your community", as well as the Indiebound logo. Hopefully that will direct customers the right way...
Price fixing is illegal. End of. I'd be well angry if Sainsburys started selling milk at three times the price cos the government stepped in to help farm shops keep alfoat.
Do we live in the Soviet Union?
Fixing prices is to protect publisher and bookseller margins but it is not helping the customer. The day the NBA went the customer became the boss, demanding range service and competitive prices just like the rest of the products on sale in the High St .The error since the end of the NBA is the publisher attitude to throwing the game away to the Supermarkets , and also invited into our tent by the Booksellers Asociation .So strategically unwise.
Julian, I will go along with your comments...but only so far.
Where everyone slipped up in 1995 is that they underestimated the long-term damage that Amazon would cause to the terrestial booktrade. Oh, what a different world in 1995 where Amazon even bought secondhand books directly through Interloc.
In the noughties, Borders and Waterstone's both make classic errors of judgement letting Amazon be responsible for their own website presennce. (If my memory is right so did Toys R Us)
By the middle of 2001 Amazon were in danger of imploding ; however thanks to the introduction of Marketplace (and the financial rewards from third party seller income) their stock rocketed and they haven't looked back since.
Quietly Amazon has acquired numerous booktrade websites - probably the most well known are Abe (Advanced Book Exchange) and Bookfinder. There are unsubstantiated rumours about more recent acquisitions - and I'm not referring to TheBookDepository (which after all grew from being a Markeplace seller originally).
I've never listed or purchased anything directly ot indirectly via Amazon. I know that I'm inclined to be prejudiced but Amazon is what has done the greatest damage to the high street bookshops.
I have just thought that the BA are doing a great disservice to some of their most influential members in seeking fixed prices . Surely the bookseller of the year will be furious.Are their BA subs now in danger?
Better ask Tesco and Sainsbury's. I suspect that they recognise this is a bland gesture far far too late
When the "competition" gets a higher discount from the publisher and then uses that to sell the book at a near loss in order to beat down the independents then that is a problem and not an example of fair trade.
Take any item or trade and see if they can survive when having to offer 30-50% off.
When an indie shop can order the same quantity, I'm sure they will get the same discount.
The BA is going to look a little foolish with just supermarkets as members!
Local councils setting business rates will probably lead to even great anomalies than at present where the costs of town centre management (which largely favours the corporate chain stores) is added to the national UBR.
The NBA is dead and buried ; it should have survived in some form but that is all history.
The following article illustrates that even in Germany quality bookshops values are being eroded by "browsers" who later go and buy on-line from the discounters. (The dialogue is between two iconic publishers and covers varied subjects)
http://www.taschen.com/pages/en/catalogue/art/reading_room/320.nomen_est...
No single body of traders deserve special concessions to survive.
I would have more sympathy with some of the whingers if they were willing to accept the principle of firm sale (even Gerry Johnson seriously considered "firm sale" for Waterstone's)
In my opnion, the only way in which most indie b&m bookshops will survive is by having an eclectic range, part of which should be "exclusive" to the business.
The government needs to examine the predatory pricing on Amazon - this affects other high street trades ; there are many instances where Amazon deliberately prices books at unrealistic discount even though they know that they have been refused direct supply by the publishers. Surely Amazon is breaking many national and international anti-trust laws ; it is one thing to discount to compete, quite another to discount to destroy a market sector.
I would have to agree, it seems like the equivalent of the horse drawn carriage makers calling for the re-introduction of Red Flag laws.
The real problem is that booksellers are not just competing against other booksellers, they are also competing against TV, video games, facebook, and all the other things that people can do in their spare time. Pushing up the price of books across the board will just discourage bookreading further.
I have to agree with Clive above - expecting to be a special case is not the answer for bookshops, or indeed any other segment of retail.
The book industry needs to be sustainable and profitable in it's own right, and that means competing for shopper appeal more effectively.
In response to this article i have written a more detailed discussion of what's wrong and what booksellers can do to improve their customer experience
http://t.co/IOgOEaNE
The NBA isn't coming back.
It wasn't the government that ended it. It was a voluntary agreement and people in the trade - stupidly in my opinion - broke it.
Absolutely!
I'm curious to know whether this would work in practice. Surely people know roughly what the full price of a hardback or paperback is? If you look at gaming or music, neither product carries r.r.p.s on the back but mass market retailers still make a huge deal of the big discount offers you can get from them.
Many illustrated titles are published for the international market and don't have a printed rrp ; removal of printed rrp would be of little benefit.
It wouldnt work Graeme, as the starting points would still be the same, and then margins needing to be added would still be % the same. ending up at pretty much the same place that we are at now.
the indie could buy for say £3 add % costs(per turnover) and % profit(wanted) and end up at £6.
Amazon etc. would get the books for £1.50 / £1.75 initially, add % costs(per turnover) and % profit and then have the title available for £3-£5.
the % costs depend on the turnover compared to the 1 product. Ie my costs run at about 23% of turnover. im sure amazon's run a lot lower vs. turnover.
etc etc. the same would apply.
and the differences in price would still exist
It's not going to happen. The world's changed. Move on.
I like a poster with arrows on as much as the next person and i'm sure the message wont be lost on all but the most stupid of individuals, but does anyone else think it implies you should "Find it here (in our bookshop), but ---------> Buy it over here (in Sainsburys)" ?
Hi,
The picture had to be cropped to fit the space, but the poster also has the taglines "Keep books on the high street" and "Celebrate bookshops in your community", as well as the Indiebound logo. Hopefully that will direct customers the right way...
Sometimes the crass ignorance of some of the industry takes my breath away. Why should the government have anything to do with the price of books? or magazines, or potatoes, or bicycles? Do we still yearn for the days of state ownership and control of industry? Have I missed a public mood shift to live in 1970's Soviet Russia?
The effect of price controls on books would lead to lower sales (anyone betting on Jamie Oliver sales holding up at £25 a pop?) and greater margins for the giants.
Apart from this, how will borders be policed? We are pretty powerless to control Amazon selling CDs from Jersey just to shave the Vat.
The way that almost everything physical is being sold is changing rapidly. We are time poor, and now cash poor. Price and time are everything. I realised at about 5.45 last night that i had nothing to read for the weekend. I went onto Amazon and bought two good paperbacks for less than the cost of one in an indie, and they have just arrived. That is two book sales where there might have been one, and I did not need to leave the house. It is the future for the mass market.
As Clive and Rick above have pointed out, specialism in location and range are key, combined with a huge passion for customer service. Indies should not try and compete with Amazon and Sainsburys - compete with the specialist cookshop, deli, chocolatier, boutique clothes shop etc with a niche product the people will want to buy at a premium price in a location where they are wanting to spend money [eg holiday]. And focus effort on getting them into the shop and keeping them there, with a great customer experience - be it coffee, authors, armchairs, food or pets!
I understand how indie booksellers feel - but I don't think fixed prices would help them. Most people don't want to spend £10 to £20 on a book on a regular basis, esp. not in this economy.
As an example, I overheard some women in a W.H. Smith who were looking for a book to read, but on realising the prices, bought some gossip magazines instead.
There's a lot of competition out there & books need to be affordable or aimed at niche markets with money.
Price fixing is illegal. End of. I'd be well angry if Sainsburys started selling milk at three times the price cos the government stepped in to help farm shops keep alfoat.
When the "competition" gets a higher discount from the publisher and then uses that to sell the book at a near loss in order to beat down the independents then that is a problem and not an example of fair trade.
Take any item or trade and see if they can survive when having to offer 30-50% off.
When an indie shop can order the same quantity, I'm sure they will get the same discount.
Do we live in the Soviet Union?
Fixing prices is to protect publisher and bookseller margins but it is not helping the customer. The day the NBA went the customer became the boss, demanding range service and competitive prices just like the rest of the products on sale in the High St .The error since the end of the NBA is the publisher attitude to throwing the game away to the Supermarkets , and also invited into our tent by the Booksellers Asociation .So strategically unwise.
Julian, I will go along with your comments...but only so far.
Where everyone slipped up in 1995 is that they underestimated the long-term damage that Amazon would cause to the terrestial booktrade. Oh, what a different world in 1995 where Amazon even bought secondhand books directly through Interloc.
In the noughties, Borders and Waterstone's both make classic errors of judgement letting Amazon be responsible for their own website presennce. (If my memory is right so did Toys R Us)
By the middle of 2001 Amazon were in danger of imploding ; however thanks to the introduction of Marketplace (and the financial rewards from third party seller income) their stock rocketed and they haven't looked back since.
Quietly Amazon has acquired numerous booktrade websites - probably the most well known are Abe (Advanced Book Exchange) and Bookfinder. There are unsubstantiated rumours about more recent acquisitions - and I'm not referring to TheBookDepository (which after all grew from being a Markeplace seller originally).
I've never listed or purchased anything directly ot indirectly via Amazon. I know that I'm inclined to be prejudiced but Amazon is what has done the greatest damage to the high street bookshops.
I have just thought that the BA are doing a great disservice to some of their most influential members in seeking fixed prices . Surely the bookseller of the year will be furious.Are their BA subs now in danger?
Better ask Tesco and Sainsbury's. I suspect that they recognise this is a bland gesture far far too late
My reading of Tim Godfray's comments are that the BA is NOT seeking fixed prices, indeed he acknowledges that the idea is a non-starter. As for accepting supermarkets into BA membership, there really was no choice. Mixed product retailers such as WHSmith had been members for decades so refusing Tesco or Sainsburys would have left the association open to legal action. In any case, limiting membership to traditional booksellers would itself have been a restrictive 'closed shop' approach entirely out of step with the times. Would the BA have been stronger by restricting membership? A hypothetical debate but I think not. By speaking for just a section of booksellers it would have had less influence. The real issue is not BA membership but the foolishness of publishers in failing to foresee that the supermarket channel would erode sales in stockholding high street bookshops of all sizes. By selling bestsellers into Tesco and Sainsbury at 'run on' cost, as much as 80 per cent discount in some cases, while maintaining traditional low discounts to bookshops they constrain effective competition to the detriment of high street bookselling, their own mid and back lists and new authors.
"The real issue is not BA membership but the foolishness of publishers in failing to foresee that the supermarket channel would erode sales in stockholding high street bookshops of all sizes..."
And the utter foolishness of those chain booksellers who were complicit in getting rid of the NBA
The BA is going to look a little foolish with just supermarkets as members!
The Bat says: One way to help smaller retailers across the board...would be to raise the VAT threshold from £73,000 to around £200,000 and put VAT at 25% on everything including books...giving booksellers & other smaller retailers a 25% start!
Another idea is to have a rate-free allowance on the first 500 sq footage of any business. (This would take me out of non-domestic rates completely :-]) It would be very easy to calculate - local councils already know the square-foot size of every business...
Why are magazines and newspapers always sold at full RRP by supermarkets and stationers? Are they legally bound to do so?
In October 2008 the OFT published their findings into newspaper and magazine distribution which is a unique supply chain - hence the fixed price.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/comp_policy/oft1028.pdf
2.1 Unlike supply chains for many other products, which are retailerdriven,
the newspaper and magazine supply chains are publisher led.
In particular, publishers appear to exercise a strong degree of
influence over:
• pricing at all stages of the supply chains by printing a price on
the cover (cover prices) and setting, or recommending, the
margins earned by both wholesalers and retailers
• the volumes of the products received by individual retailers,
usually through setting the parameters used by wholesalers to
allocate copies4 to retailers (copy allocation), and
• the nature of the service provided by wholesalers to retailers,
through the system of prescribed performance standards
which publishers require of wholesalers as part of the
agreements between publishers and wholesalers. These
performance standards then influence the terms and
conditions on which retailers are supplied.
(If any retailer sought to discount then supply would be withdrawn)
Incidentally, all wholesalers hold exclusivity of supply within their own territories which are allocated by tender.
In answer to Martin's point.. "As far as accepting supermarkets as BA members there really was no choice ...." Yes there was- NOT ACCEPT THEM because unlike WHS, books represent less than half of one percent of supermarkets turnover. They are just not booksellers , they are grocers who sell books , like my post office sells less than 1% of its turnover with Catherine Cookson. That isn't a bookseller either.
Accepting them onto the BA council gave them a respectability as booksellers to debate terms with publishers , who just rolled over to volume orders not realising [amazingly] that eventually they were closing down the indies by doing so .
The implication of this is that supermarkets would have been unable to sell books without BA membership. No, they were accepted into membership because they were already selling them and in high volumes. The criterion should surely not be supermarket sales as a proportion of their turnover but their sales as a proportion of total book sales, which at the time Tesco were first admitted was significant and growing. Of course they did not need BA membership to debate terms with publishers, with respectability or otherwise. Their orders for ten or twenty thousand books a time in one drop surprisingly somehow managed to open a few doors for them. And where would one stop? Perhaps the BA might have rejected membership by wholesalers, who were not selling to the public? No, putting aside the legal position for a moment, if the BA was to be a 'broad church', truly representative of the trade, it really was the way forward.
Sorry Martin you are just wrong,even in your definition of a bookseller. It is nothing to do with the % of the bookmarket [about 2% when supermarkets were admitted into the BA], but the % of their own sales which of course in turn influences their rip and burn trading behavior.
It is nothing to do with trading legals incidentally , just the foolishness of letting the hitherto BA memberships' commercial enemies inside the tent in return for money . At least we are now hearing the BA's reasoning as they have always maintained silence on the matter up until now, presumably aware of their monumental strategic error and with a position so easily rendered illegitimate.
The most worrying aspect of this dialogue between Martin Grindley and Julian Rivers is surely the assertion that right for BA membership was determined by the supermarket's percentage of book sales at that time.
Taking the comments from Martin Grindley to be in line with thinking from the past and present BA council then it is only a matter of time before Amazon is accepted into the BA fold.
Clive as we have debated scores of times AMAZON are not in any shape or form similar to Supermarkets . Amazon have invested millions of pounds in selling and marketing books , and millions more in stocking them as by far their principal trading product .They infact should be BA members but I doubt that they care a fig .
Clive as we have debated scores of times AMAZON are not in any shape or form similar to Supermarkets . Amazon have invested millions of pounds in selling and marketing books , and millions more in stocking them as by far their principal trading product .They infact should be BA members but I doubt that they care a fig .
I'll not repeat myself, i say, i'll not repeat myself...
Of course one could conceivably argue that since all BA members were in competition they were each other's commercial enemies. The BA's constitional remit was and is to promote bookselling and booksellers, not bookselling and the bookseller members who happen to be already in the club. As for the BA remaining silent, this is simply not true. I recall much discussion in the BA and the trade press when Tesco were admitted, and in particular remember a long and heated debate at the BA conference in Jersey around 1997 when the decision was upheld. BA membership confirmed no special privileges on supermarkets and I doubt if publishers cared a damn. Yes, of course the BA was happy to take their subscription money, which was largely spent on providing added value services for its smaller members, particularly independents like the ones I owned at the time. As for Amazon, of course they should be members because they are major booksellers, and it is to be regretted that they are not. Anyone who believes they should not be because books now only represent a small percentage of their turnover is living in a historical make-believe world. In summary, the membership policy of the BA as a fully representative association does not always line up with the commercial aims of every individual member and nor should it if it truly wishes to avoid 'monumental strategic error'.
Too late Martin, the BA has all but finished itself as it has watched the end of the indie alongside its Council member Sainsbury's , bookseller of the year . Remember this is not the Publisher's Association we are talking about its the BOOKSELLER'S ASSOCIATION . Representing BOOKSELLERS , not necessarily just anybody who sells books who are exploitative of the product .You have to defend your position but you are wrong and the rapidly depleting indie membership
concur I think you will find.
Nice one, Julian! So I'm to blame for the decline of independent bookselling because I advocated BA membership for supermarkets? An interesting interpretation of book trade history, to say the least. As we all know, a BA which comprised solely high street bookshops would be in a far worse position than it is today. As I said earlier, the real issue is not BA membership but the short-sightedness of publishers in failing to foresee that the supermarket channel would erode sales in stockholding high street bookshops. Whether or not supermarkets were members, like it or not the BA rightly had no collective powers or rights under the UK free market system to constrain the growth of the supermarket book sales or, for that matter, of Amazon or e-books. I think this discussion is now going round in circles and probably boring readers. I've made my case as cogently as I can in my contributions as I'm sure you have, so I suggest we leave others to decide for themselves on these somewhat subjective positions.
Too late Martin, the BA has all but finished itself as it has watched the end of the indie alongside its Council member Sainsbury's , bookseller of the year . Remember this is not the Publisher's Association we are talking about its the BOOKSELLER'S ASSOCIATION . Representing BOOKSELLERS , not necessarily just anybody who sells books who are exploitative of the product .You have to defend your position but you are wrong and the rapidly depleting indie membership
concur I think you will find.
Clever retreat Martin.
Not a retreat, Julian. I just see no point in boring people with an exchange of "I'm right, you're wrong" when they can decide for themselves.
Yes that's what I said, you were wrong . Sorry.
Yes that's what I said, you were wrong . Sorry.
It would be interesting to know if in financial terms publishers turnover has increased allowing for inflation since the net book agreement was scraped.The closing of all those famous stockholding bookshops in towns across the nation,has it led to more books being bought across the board or just benifiting those fiction publishers and highly promoted books in supermarkets.It would be an interesting academic study.
You know what...all the blame, who did what when is futile and useless. The entire way books are sold in this country hinges on whether you consider bookselling as a 'special' case in retailing. If yes then a major rethink of pricing and discounts has to be investigated. If not, as I suspect will be the case , market forces will dictate what is published..mass market will dominate, lists will contract as will outlets and the esoteric , quirky or challenging will diapear. So be it.
Having just discovered this thread I apologise for re-opening 'wounds'. When I applied to join the BA in 1989 I was asked to confirm that my business complied with a list of 'requirements' and thereby satisfy the definition of a 'Bookseller' as opposed to being a seller of books. Two of these requirements were to hold bibliographical reference materials 'in store' and to take customer orders. At the time supermarkets were allowed to join I am sure that none of them could answer yes to those two questions and I am sure that some still cannot. I appreciate Mr Grindley that the money received from the supermarkets has helped the smaller members of the BA, probably by giving them advice on redundancy packages for their staff when their trade dried up.
Selective taxing under the control of local councils? I think not!!!
My local council is already effectively run by local business and landowners - not just jobs for the boys, but as often as not jobs and contracts specifically manufactured for the old boys and brethren. Selective taxing will simply allow them another beanfeast.
Well Duncan confirms the position of the BA. Martin Grindley is a great guy and a wonderful servant of the BA but this was confirmation of the fact that the BA rolled over to the supermarkets for cash . They dont do any of the services of a bookseller , they put a tiny range of books on a shelf at strip down discounts wrecking bookshops who trade in that product for 100% their living .Supermarkets trade in books represents a variable and tiny % of their total sales [under half 1 %]. THEY ARE NOT BOOKSELLERS , THEY ARE GROCERS WHO SELL [exploit] BOOKS .Mainly what should be our top sellers .
Despite Clive's issues Amazon are booksellers by all the BA's original definition and the public think they are fantastic at their job .
No comparison with the grocers "Do you sell Booktokens? ", "We are not currently running that promotion sir "
The NBA did have one function it prevented the BA and publishers from doing really dangerously stupid things .
This thread is going around in circles, but since you have re-opened it and at the risk of repeating myself...
I reject the accusation that the BA 'rolled over to the supermarkets for cash'. At the time it accepted Tesco into membership the BA already had many members for whom books were a small part of their range. Tesco were substantial and growing booksellers (ask any major publisher) and refusal would have incurred possible legal action. As I have said twice already, BA membership conferred no privileges whatsoever and I believe the BA was stronger and more representative with them on board. Refusing membership to supermarkets would have had no impact whatsoever on the growth of their book sales, which was wholly predictable once the NBA was abandoned. If it had refused membership to supermarkets, would the BA have had any impact or credibility if it had campaigned against them as a channel for books sales? Of course not. It was not the BA that rolled over, rather it was the publishers by falling over themselves to give abusurdly high discounts. Again as I state earlier, sometimes BA membership doesn't always line up with the commercial aims of every single member. At the heart of this debate, however, is a real misunderstanding by some contributors about what the BA is for. It is not some magic bullet that makes commercial problems go away for any single member or sector. It exists to promote bookselling and help and advise its bookseller members, which it does with enormous success.
So why did Tesco et al join? They are not known for their warm and cuddly generosity.
You would have to ask them but presumably for much the same reasons that WHSmith or Waterstones are members, they wanted to be part of the bookselling community. Perhaps they felt it gave them an insight into the trade which they would not have had otherwise.
You got it in one . Goering invited to the Battle of Britain planning meeting .