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Daunt attacks 'Luxembourg problem'
01.01.70 | Charlotte Williams
Waterstone's m.d. James Daunt has called for the government to intervene over tax rates, criticising the advantages enjoyed by businesses which trade from Luxembourg, as Amazon does, in an interview with the Financial Times.
When asked by the FT if the government could do anything to aid the book trade, Daunt said: "The only thing that could be done and I think should be done is that the 'Luxembourg problem' shouldn't exist. I find it peculiar that the government taxes us on the high street heavily through the business rates when our major competitor, which is obviously the internet, is not taxed at all and in fact runs itself in an aggressively tax-efficient manner."
Last week Luxembourg said it would lower the VAT rate on e-books to 3% in a move that could give Amazon a further competitive advantage to UK based e-booksellers, which must charge the UK rate of 20%. James Daunt, m.d of Waterstone's, told The Bookseller: "We would prefer VAT to be lower or zero-rated for e-books but believe it is wrong to exploit loopholes such as this. It is confusing for the consumer and takes money out of the UK tax system, which I cannot believe is in the best interests of the trade or the indeed the country.”
In the FT interview, Daunt also talked about the problem of "showrooming", when customers browse in Waterstone's but buy the book at a lower price through other retailers online. He said: "You can do it with every single product you buy, just about. It undoubtedly happens in books. So how do you win the loyalty and trust and acceptance of your customers so that they limit the degree to which they do that? I think that's probably what we don't have at the moment. We certainly don't have enough of it."
On the stocking of Waterstone's, Daunt reiterated the need for a local offer. "Clearly we want a different offer in Romford to Islington. I would expect on Upper Street [in Islington] on a Saturday for a significant number of people to be reading your paper and coming in and buying the books you review. I suspect fewer are walking down Romford High Street thinking: 'Oh, the new Norman Davies looks really interesting,'" he said.
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I have to admit that he has got a point here. Amazon's dodging tax dealings is the reason why it is so hard to deal with Amazon directly as a small indie.
A simple but effective tax change would be to charge differential rates of VAT for purchases fulfilled through pure on-line channels.
'Showrooming' undoubtedly does occur, with a direct and immediate transfer of sales from high street booksellers to on-line retailers. When this happens, the investment made on the high street provides free marketing for retailers operating on-line.
It's a particular problem for books, which are easily identifiable and the end product is identical however it is supplied.
Far from being a 'tax-break', charging a higher VAT rate for purchases fulfilled purely on-line (store collection could attract a lower rate) would 'level the playing field' and reflect the market-making subsidy provided by high street booksellers to on-line retailers.
Revenue raised could then be used directly to support changes to the high street environment.
On the two issues which Daunt raies:
1. It is far from being clearly 'wrong' for Amazon (and, lets not forget, many other e-retailers) to exploit this loophole. Amazon operates in many different (EU) countries (including Luxembourg, I presume) so for them to choose to base their operations in a location which offers them a competitive advantage over their competitors just seems like good business sense (why pay more when you don't have to? [taking into account moral restrictions]). Mr Daunt: stop moaning about it, and start competing.
2. 'Showrooming' will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices. In the current economic climate the consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones. From a strictly consumer perspective, it's nonsensical to pay 30, 40, even 50% more for a book when it can be acquired cheaper online. Again, stop moaning about it, and start competing.
Ultimately, Daunt is trying to create a level playing-field upon which Waterstones and Amazon compete. Yet the very nature of e-retailing means that this cannot, and possibly should not, happen. Why doesn't Daunt just move his e-retailing operation to Luxembourg?
It seems that he has two options: sit back in his ivory tower and moan about the apparent injustices of the business world, or stand up and compete.
Moaning gets you nowhere.
Waterstones website is feeble compared toAmazon. Amazingly enough there is no gift voucher facility on the website which must be costing them a fortune, especially at this time if year.
Why has my comment been removed?
It is back Book Buyer. I think Daunt is just calling for a level-playing field. The law in not even, it has not caught up with the internet (unbelievably, the VAT situation will change but not for another four years), and it is not benign. We all hear constantly how the high street is dying because the internet is all powerful, and it makes for a compelling argument, but in truth we know that Amazon operates in a very advantageous environment not available to physical retailers. The govt needs to sort this and let the different retail sectors compete fairly.
'In the current economic climate the consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones.'
Absolute rubbish. Books are cheap, very cheap, and are enormously good value. How much do you pay for a cinema ticket or a DVD to keep you entertained for two hours? How much for a round of drinks or a bottle of wine? To suggest that people cannot afford eight quid for a paperback novel that they could spend two or three weeks reading is facile.
The extra cost at Waterstones is associated with maintaining a high street presence, a pleasant space in which people can browse and staff on hand to answer queries. Merely shopping online in one thing; 'showrooming' is a disgraceful way to behave, a horrible manifestation of cynical short-termism, and if you're defending this practice because it is one in which you indulge you should be ashamed of yourself.
Sounds like it's bad to live in Romford. ... I suppose they only read Mr Men books there. Oh dear...better move to Islington then.
'Absolute rubbish. Books are cheap, very cheap, and are enormously good value. How much do you pay for a cinema ticket or a DVD to keep you entertained for two hours? How much for a round of drinks or a bottle of wine? To suggest that people cannot afford eight quid for a paperback novel that they could spend two or three weeks reading is facile.'
My point - which has clearly sailed over your head - is that in these economic circumstances disposable income is squeezed to such a point that when a significantly cheaper alternative is offered (regarding books, dvds, cds etc.) the consumer is compelled to take it seriously and is consequently more likely to take it up. A further point: if that eight quid paperback is five quid on Amazon, why spend more? Especially when your disposable income is squeezed. Why do you think HMV have just released depressing revenue figures? They are, in many ways, in a similar position to Waterstones.
'The extra cost at Waterstones is associated with maintaining a high street presence, a pleasant space in which people can browse and staff on hand to answer queries. Merely shopping online in one thing; 'showrooming' is a disgraceful way to behave, a horrible manifestation of cynical short-termism, and if you're defending this practice because it is one in which you indulge you should be ashamed of yourself.'
I neither defended 'showrooming', nor endorsed it. Your vehemency is mis-placed and...facile.
'My point - which has clearly sailed over your head - is that in these economic circumstances disposable income is squeezed to such a point that when a significantly cheaper alternative is offered (regarding books, dvds, cds etc.) the consumer is compelled to take it seriously and is consequently more likely to take it up.'
Yes, and my point - if you go look up and read more slowly (out loud if it helps) - is that books are cheaper than they ever have been, and represent better value for money than dvds, or a night out. I pay more in Waterstones because I don't have to pay or wait for delivery, and because I don't want to feed an encroaching monopoly.
'I neither defended 'showrooming', nor endorsed it.'
Really? Because when you said '"Showrooming" will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices' it sounded an awful lot like you were blaming the retailers for their prices rather than the barcode-scanners for their penny-pinching. And when you said 'stop moaning about it, and start competing' one could have inferred that you consider it unreasonable for shops to object to this sort of behaviour.
By the way, there are all sorts of reasons why Waterstones cannot compete on price with Amazon, as you would know if you worked in the book trade.
The playing field needs to be levelled by treating ebooks like other books and making them zero rated for VAT for all sellers. There's a real crisis in bookselling, and levelling the playing field by keeping prices high won't help it.
If books were so incredibly cheap and such good value then authors would have higher average sales and they don't. Daunt imagines that Waterstones is losing customers due to online sales, but the fact is that it's hard to sell books everywhere. Look at the average number of sales per author to get a more realistic picture.
Daunt should be helping the campaign to get VAT removed from ebooks. Ebooks shouldn't be treated as an 'electronic service'. They should be treated like printed books if we really want to level the playing field. Publishers really need ebooks to take off in order to help us survive, so let's campaign for VAT to be reduced for everybody.
'Yes, and my point - if you go look up and read more slowly (out loud if it helps) - is that books are cheaper than they ever have been, and represent better value for money than dvds, or a night out. I pay more in Waterstones because I don't have to pay or wait for delivery, and because I don't want to feed an encroaching monopoly.'
Again, my point has been missed amid the pomposity: you presumably have sufficient disposable income to allow you to make the decision to forgo the variance in price between Amazon and Waterstones for reasons which have nothing to do with economics of our discussion; your decision is based upon a personal preference not to wait for delivery and to not feed an - alleged - encroaching monopoly. Many, many people in this country - if you can climb down from your high horse for a couple of minutes - do not have sufficient income to be able to do the same.
'Really? Because when you said '"Showrooming" will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices' it sounded an awful lot like you were blaming the retailers for their prices rather than the barcode-scanners for their penny-pinching. And when you said 'stop moaning about it, and start competing' one could have inferred that you consider it unreasonable for shops to object to this sort of behaviour.'
I ask only one thing of you in reference to your ill-considered rant about 'showrooming': do you object to someone popping into Whsmith to check the price of a book, to then go and purchase it at a cheaper price at Waterstones? I would consider this equivalent to 'showrooming', would you not? Presumably you have no problem with the concept of 'value for money'? Why is it such an issue here but not elsewhere?
A further point: what about consumers who browse in-store at Waterstones but then purchase from the Waterstones online site in order to take advantage of the price differences? This is 'showrooming' but presumably you won't have any problem with that because it doesn't benefit another company. Where is the distinction to be drawn if the claim is to be defended that it is ok to 'showroom' at Waterstones as long as you buy online from them, but it's not ok to buy online from another company (let's not limit this to Amazon)? Is 'showrooming' not equivalent to a desire, on the consumer's part, to get value for money?
It's for the various companies operating with the industry to compel the consumer to spend their income with them, rather than with someone else. The days of blind consumer loyalty are long gone.
'By the way, there are all sorts of reasons why Waterstones cannot compete on price with Amazon, as you would know if you worked in the book trade.'
To clear up your erroneous assumption: I work in the book trade, and have done for five years. I choose to post anonymously because my personal views do not represent those of my employer, as I'm sure is the case with you. Try harder not to be so patronising, but if you must, at least do so when you're sure it'll have the desired effect.
Or, lets not.
"Amazon operates in a very advantageous environment not available to physical retailers"
Remember the day Amazon bought the whole internet so only they could run online bookstores? Terrible times.
I earn only a little more than the national average wage, which counts for slightly less, living as I do in London. Your original assertion - that the 'economic climate' means that the 'consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones' is nonsense. If you cannot afford to spend (say) £10 on a book, you most likely cannot afford £8 either. Since book-buying has always been a predominantly middle-class habit, the vast, vast majority of people can afford to buy as many books as ever they have done.
You seem to have misunderstood what 'showrooming' is. It is not comparing prices at two competing outlets; it is using the advantages of the high street's visible stock and staff and then taking advantage of Amazon's low-tax (and often loss-leading) trading model. I would have thought the difference between looking in Waterstone's and buying from their online shop and doing the same with Amazon were so obvious as to render explanation redundant.
Even if you have only worked in the book trade for five years, you surely cannot be so ignorant of the financial pressure that high street bookshops are under as your post suggests. 'Stop moaning about it, and start competing' is an unbelievably glib comment to make. How should the high street compete with Amazon? Price-matching? How long would Waterstone's last if it started a price war with an offshore company? Let's hear it: what's your big idea?
If I were just starting in the industry, as you are, I wouldn't be so quick to defend Amazon; there's a strong chance it will have you out of a career in the next few years.
My big idea? For the high street booksellers? I don't have one. The high street is in desperate trouble. The move to digital is only going to intensify the problem. The smart money lies in digital....which is why it won't have me out of a career in the next few years.
As for 'showrooming': if it's such a problem for Waterstones they should move their online operation to a location which allows them to compete on a level playing field with other online retailers. That way, if consumers want to 'showroom' to then buy online, they'll be more motivated to do so from Waterstones' own website. Moaning about it is tantamount to blaming others for your own shortcomings.
High street retailing and internet retailing don't operate on a level playing field because they are both valid, but very different methods of selling. To impose artifical restrictions upon one method simply because it is destroying the other is unjustifiable. Instead of Waterstones complaining about this and that, they should do something to level the playing field: one such way is to offer a more competitive online service. Whether they can do whilst funding their high street operation is another matter.
"Showrooming" can work both ways. Amazon is a very useful catalogue to use on your mobile phone when you're lost in a large bookshop (wonderful though that state is) trying to find a book you saw reviewed, and can't remember an author's name. It's also a very useful catalogue to use at home, to root out books coming up by your favourite authors, which you can then buy in your local bookshop. Thanks to Amazon, I'm much more aware now than I have ever been of what I'm planning to buy over the next few months (I even have a few marked down for 2013).
I agree. I've discovered many wonderful books through browsing the Amazon website - books I would never have found at my local Waterstones because they aren't stocked. Out of fairness, I always buy those books from Amazon because they've made the effort to sell them to me.
Although Waterstones are happy to order books for customers, they don't provide an easy method for customers to choose which books they want to order. Except for staff recommendations, they are relying on people discovering those books through other routes (reviews and online bookstores).
I agree with David and Diana. I read poetry and literary fiction and remember the days I had to come to London from Canterbury to get my poetry books in Camden. Nowadays I can find the books I want, but not in bookshops.
When I've said this before I've been told I could have ordered the books through the bookshops - but as Diana says, I found a lot of them by browsing online. So the showcasing definitely works both ways.
I would still prefer to order the book in a bookshop, or direct from the publisher, and often go direct to the publisher's website. Amazon displays poetry and literary fiction but their messages can be misleading, and often they take the order but keep delaying, saying the book is temporarily out of stock, and don't ultimately send the book. This loses sales for publishers as it happens even when the book is easily available from the wholesaler. And it leaves customers dissatisfied and believing the book is no longer available, when it is easy to get through other suppliers.
So bookshops are missing out here. As Diana points out, what they lack is an easy way to browse for all books, even those out of stock. There should be an easy way for customers to look for books online in bookshops, just as they can with online sellers.
They could then order the book through the bookshop, but that can take way too long while the bookshop waits for the book to arrive from their wholesaler before selling it to the customer. Can't the bookshops order books from the wholesaler to be sent to the customer, just as the online sellers do?
If the bookshop managers get orders from customers in this way, letting them browse a website with all books on the Nielsen database, then order it via a wholesaler who sends it direct to customer, I would certainly use bookshops more. Or am I missing a problem in this?
The Bat says:
Hi Adele, you mustn't have heard of The Hive. Independent bookshops link their websites to Gardners public website The Hive and customers can arrange to have their book or DVD delivered to their home or to the bookshop. They also sell eBooks for your eReader - and you can even pay with National Book Tokens
I have to admit that he has got a point here. Amazon's dodging tax dealings is the reason why it is so hard to deal with Amazon directly as a small indie.
A simple but effective tax change would be to charge differential rates of VAT for purchases fulfilled through pure on-line channels.
'Showrooming' undoubtedly does occur, with a direct and immediate transfer of sales from high street booksellers to on-line retailers. When this happens, the investment made on the high street provides free marketing for retailers operating on-line.
It's a particular problem for books, which are easily identifiable and the end product is identical however it is supplied.
Far from being a 'tax-break', charging a higher VAT rate for purchases fulfilled purely on-line (store collection could attract a lower rate) would 'level the playing field' and reflect the market-making subsidy provided by high street booksellers to on-line retailers.
Revenue raised could then be used directly to support changes to the high street environment.
On the two issues which Daunt raies:
1. It is far from being clearly 'wrong' for Amazon (and, lets not forget, many other e-retailers) to exploit this loophole. Amazon operates in many different (EU) countries (including Luxembourg, I presume) so for them to choose to base their operations in a location which offers them a competitive advantage over their competitors just seems like good business sense (why pay more when you don't have to? [taking into account moral restrictions]). Mr Daunt: stop moaning about it, and start competing.
2. 'Showrooming' will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices. In the current economic climate the consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones. From a strictly consumer perspective, it's nonsensical to pay 30, 40, even 50% more for a book when it can be acquired cheaper online. Again, stop moaning about it, and start competing.
Ultimately, Daunt is trying to create a level playing-field upon which Waterstones and Amazon compete. Yet the very nature of e-retailing means that this cannot, and possibly should not, happen. Why doesn't Daunt just move his e-retailing operation to Luxembourg?
It seems that he has two options: sit back in his ivory tower and moan about the apparent injustices of the business world, or stand up and compete.
Moaning gets you nowhere.
'In the current economic climate the consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones.'
Absolute rubbish. Books are cheap, very cheap, and are enormously good value. How much do you pay for a cinema ticket or a DVD to keep you entertained for two hours? How much for a round of drinks or a bottle of wine? To suggest that people cannot afford eight quid for a paperback novel that they could spend two or three weeks reading is facile.
The extra cost at Waterstones is associated with maintaining a high street presence, a pleasant space in which people can browse and staff on hand to answer queries. Merely shopping online in one thing; 'showrooming' is a disgraceful way to behave, a horrible manifestation of cynical short-termism, and if you're defending this practice because it is one in which you indulge you should be ashamed of yourself.
'Absolute rubbish. Books are cheap, very cheap, and are enormously good value. How much do you pay for a cinema ticket or a DVD to keep you entertained for two hours? How much for a round of drinks or a bottle of wine? To suggest that people cannot afford eight quid for a paperback novel that they could spend two or three weeks reading is facile.'
My point - which has clearly sailed over your head - is that in these economic circumstances disposable income is squeezed to such a point that when a significantly cheaper alternative is offered (regarding books, dvds, cds etc.) the consumer is compelled to take it seriously and is consequently more likely to take it up. A further point: if that eight quid paperback is five quid on Amazon, why spend more? Especially when your disposable income is squeezed. Why do you think HMV have just released depressing revenue figures? They are, in many ways, in a similar position to Waterstones.
'The extra cost at Waterstones is associated with maintaining a high street presence, a pleasant space in which people can browse and staff on hand to answer queries. Merely shopping online in one thing; 'showrooming' is a disgraceful way to behave, a horrible manifestation of cynical short-termism, and if you're defending this practice because it is one in which you indulge you should be ashamed of yourself.'
I neither defended 'showrooming', nor endorsed it. Your vehemency is mis-placed and...facile.
'My point - which has clearly sailed over your head - is that in these economic circumstances disposable income is squeezed to such a point that when a significantly cheaper alternative is offered (regarding books, dvds, cds etc.) the consumer is compelled to take it seriously and is consequently more likely to take it up.'
Yes, and my point - if you go look up and read more slowly (out loud if it helps) - is that books are cheaper than they ever have been, and represent better value for money than dvds, or a night out. I pay more in Waterstones because I don't have to pay or wait for delivery, and because I don't want to feed an encroaching monopoly.
'I neither defended 'showrooming', nor endorsed it.'
Really? Because when you said '"Showrooming" will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices' it sounded an awful lot like you were blaming the retailers for their prices rather than the barcode-scanners for their penny-pinching. And when you said 'stop moaning about it, and start competing' one could have inferred that you consider it unreasonable for shops to object to this sort of behaviour.
By the way, there are all sorts of reasons why Waterstones cannot compete on price with Amazon, as you would know if you worked in the book trade.
'Yes, and my point - if you go look up and read more slowly (out loud if it helps) - is that books are cheaper than they ever have been, and represent better value for money than dvds, or a night out. I pay more in Waterstones because I don't have to pay or wait for delivery, and because I don't want to feed an encroaching monopoly.'
Again, my point has been missed amid the pomposity: you presumably have sufficient disposable income to allow you to make the decision to forgo the variance in price between Amazon and Waterstones for reasons which have nothing to do with economics of our discussion; your decision is based upon a personal preference not to wait for delivery and to not feed an - alleged - encroaching monopoly. Many, many people in this country - if you can climb down from your high horse for a couple of minutes - do not have sufficient income to be able to do the same.
'Really? Because when you said '"Showrooming" will always be a problem until you start offering comparable prices' it sounded an awful lot like you were blaming the retailers for their prices rather than the barcode-scanners for their penny-pinching. And when you said 'stop moaning about it, and start competing' one could have inferred that you consider it unreasonable for shops to object to this sort of behaviour.'
I ask only one thing of you in reference to your ill-considered rant about 'showrooming': do you object to someone popping into Whsmith to check the price of a book, to then go and purchase it at a cheaper price at Waterstones? I would consider this equivalent to 'showrooming', would you not? Presumably you have no problem with the concept of 'value for money'? Why is it such an issue here but not elsewhere?
A further point: what about consumers who browse in-store at Waterstones but then purchase from the Waterstones online site in order to take advantage of the price differences? This is 'showrooming' but presumably you won't have any problem with that because it doesn't benefit another company. Where is the distinction to be drawn if the claim is to be defended that it is ok to 'showroom' at Waterstones as long as you buy online from them, but it's not ok to buy online from another company (let's not limit this to Amazon)? Is 'showrooming' not equivalent to a desire, on the consumer's part, to get value for money?
It's for the various companies operating with the industry to compel the consumer to spend their income with them, rather than with someone else. The days of blind consumer loyalty are long gone.
'By the way, there are all sorts of reasons why Waterstones cannot compete on price with Amazon, as you would know if you worked in the book trade.'
To clear up your erroneous assumption: I work in the book trade, and have done for five years. I choose to post anonymously because my personal views do not represent those of my employer, as I'm sure is the case with you. Try harder not to be so patronising, but if you must, at least do so when you're sure it'll have the desired effect.
I earn only a little more than the national average wage, which counts for slightly less, living as I do in London. Your original assertion - that the 'economic climate' means that the 'consuming public simply cannot afford the prices charged at Waterstones' is nonsense. If you cannot afford to spend (say) £10 on a book, you most likely cannot afford £8 either. Since book-buying has always been a predominantly middle-class habit, the vast, vast majority of people can afford to buy as many books as ever they have done.
You seem to have misunderstood what 'showrooming' is. It is not comparing prices at two competing outlets; it is using the advantages of the high street's visible stock and staff and then taking advantage of Amazon's low-tax (and often loss-leading) trading model. I would have thought the difference between looking in Waterstone's and buying from their online shop and doing the same with Amazon were so obvious as to render explanation redundant.
Even if you have only worked in the book trade for five years, you surely cannot be so ignorant of the financial pressure that high street bookshops are under as your post suggests. 'Stop moaning about it, and start competing' is an unbelievably glib comment to make. How should the high street compete with Amazon? Price-matching? How long would Waterstone's last if it started a price war with an offshore company? Let's hear it: what's your big idea?
If I were just starting in the industry, as you are, I wouldn't be so quick to defend Amazon; there's a strong chance it will have you out of a career in the next few years.
My big idea? For the high street booksellers? I don't have one. The high street is in desperate trouble. The move to digital is only going to intensify the problem. The smart money lies in digital....which is why it won't have me out of a career in the next few years.
As for 'showrooming': if it's such a problem for Waterstones they should move their online operation to a location which allows them to compete on a level playing field with other online retailers. That way, if consumers want to 'showroom' to then buy online, they'll be more motivated to do so from Waterstones' own website. Moaning about it is tantamount to blaming others for your own shortcomings.
High street retailing and internet retailing don't operate on a level playing field because they are both valid, but very different methods of selling. To impose artifical restrictions upon one method simply because it is destroying the other is unjustifiable. Instead of Waterstones complaining about this and that, they should do something to level the playing field: one such way is to offer a more competitive online service. Whether they can do whilst funding their high street operation is another matter.
All well and good, BB, but you do not address the VAT difference, which is simply unfair. Daunt is simply asking for an even playing field in this regard. Nothing artificial, except that Amazon is getting an artificial help from lower VAT then other retailers for selling the same product, simply because of location.
As for smart money on digital, I heard this in 1993. And in 2000. The problem with proponents such as you is that you simply do not seem to understand the dynamic between shops and online, nor do you understand implications of monopoly. Digital has a number of issues confronting it right now, not the least is that you simply do not own it when you buy it. Not every issue is a nail, and the hammer of digital books will not address them.
And yes, you did blame shop based retailers for retailing. Pretty clear. You basically say shop retailers should just give up and go online. How simple, yet also naive, blinkered, and unrealistic.
Do you really want one online shop to replace so many high street shops? Do you really want just one company to control all that simply because the market says this is he most efficient? Would you accept this with gasoline? With food? So all UK retailers should just move to Luxembourg? Do you see no problems with these scenarios? If so, then you truly are rather naive.
Is profit the aim of any business? Might not this aim co-exist – share its preeminence – with another more social-minded, such as job-creation or community activity? Mr. Daunt advocates this dual-priority of business: he describes a good bookshop as being a place where local customers stop, browse, perhaps rest and refresh themselves, and generally interact; they are also venues for events like author-talks and signings. These aspects of the bookshop stand somewhat independent of its function as a retailer; they are incidental advantages; one can enjoy them without having to buy a book.
... There is a reason that shop prices are higher: in order for us all to enjoy those aspects of the bookshop listed above, payment must be made to staff and in rent. Amazon unsurprisingly has wriggled out of many of these obligations. It employs fewer people as a proportion to its sales (increasingly able to reply on robotics and computers) and it only occupies low-rent warehouses on the outskirts of town (notoriously unsociable places). To boot, Amazon also avoids paying tax to the U. K. government – all of its e-books are technically ‘sold’ from the haven of Luxembourg. So not only does the company reduce the general number of jobs and cause the desertification of high-streets, it also avoids contributing to the upkeep of the nation.
belowwords.com
Waterstones website is feeble compared toAmazon. Amazingly enough there is no gift voucher facility on the website which must be costing them a fortune, especially at this time if year.
Why has my comment been removed?
It is back Book Buyer. I think Daunt is just calling for a level-playing field. The law in not even, it has not caught up with the internet (unbelievably, the VAT situation will change but not for another four years), and it is not benign. We all hear constantly how the high street is dying because the internet is all powerful, and it makes for a compelling argument, but in truth we know that Amazon operates in a very advantageous environment not available to physical retailers. The govt needs to sort this and let the different retail sectors compete fairly.
"Amazon operates in a very advantageous environment not available to physical retailers"
Remember the day Amazon bought the whole internet so only they could run online bookstores? Terrible times.
Sounds like it's bad to live in Romford. ... I suppose they only read Mr Men books there. Oh dear...better move to Islington then.
The playing field needs to be levelled by treating ebooks like other books and making them zero rated for VAT for all sellers. There's a real crisis in bookselling, and levelling the playing field by keeping prices high won't help it.
If books were so incredibly cheap and such good value then authors would have higher average sales and they don't. Daunt imagines that Waterstones is losing customers due to online sales, but the fact is that it's hard to sell books everywhere. Look at the average number of sales per author to get a more realistic picture.
Daunt should be helping the campaign to get VAT removed from ebooks. Ebooks shouldn't be treated as an 'electronic service'. They should be treated like printed books if we really want to level the playing field. Publishers really need ebooks to take off in order to help us survive, so let's campaign for VAT to be reduced for everybody.
Or, lets not.
"Showrooming" can work both ways. Amazon is a very useful catalogue to use on your mobile phone when you're lost in a large bookshop (wonderful though that state is) trying to find a book you saw reviewed, and can't remember an author's name. It's also a very useful catalogue to use at home, to root out books coming up by your favourite authors, which you can then buy in your local bookshop. Thanks to Amazon, I'm much more aware now than I have ever been of what I'm planning to buy over the next few months (I even have a few marked down for 2013).
I agree. I've discovered many wonderful books through browsing the Amazon website - books I would never have found at my local Waterstones because they aren't stocked. Out of fairness, I always buy those books from Amazon because they've made the effort to sell them to me.
Although Waterstones are happy to order books for customers, they don't provide an easy method for customers to choose which books they want to order. Except for staff recommendations, they are relying on people discovering those books through other routes (reviews and online bookstores).
I agree with David and Diana. I read poetry and literary fiction and remember the days I had to come to London from Canterbury to get my poetry books in Camden. Nowadays I can find the books I want, but not in bookshops.
When I've said this before I've been told I could have ordered the books through the bookshops - but as Diana says, I found a lot of them by browsing online. So the showcasing definitely works both ways.
I would still prefer to order the book in a bookshop, or direct from the publisher, and often go direct to the publisher's website. Amazon displays poetry and literary fiction but their messages can be misleading, and often they take the order but keep delaying, saying the book is temporarily out of stock, and don't ultimately send the book. This loses sales for publishers as it happens even when the book is easily available from the wholesaler. And it leaves customers dissatisfied and believing the book is no longer available, when it is easy to get through other suppliers.
So bookshops are missing out here. As Diana points out, what they lack is an easy way to browse for all books, even those out of stock. There should be an easy way for customers to look for books online in bookshops, just as they can with online sellers.
They could then order the book through the bookshop, but that can take way too long while the bookshop waits for the book to arrive from their wholesaler before selling it to the customer. Can't the bookshops order books from the wholesaler to be sent to the customer, just as the online sellers do?
If the bookshop managers get orders from customers in this way, letting them browse a website with all books on the Nielsen database, then order it via a wholesaler who sends it direct to customer, I would certainly use bookshops more. Or am I missing a problem in this?
The Bat says:
Hi Adele, you mustn't have heard of The Hive. Independent bookshops link their websites to Gardners public website The Hive and customers can arrange to have their book or DVD delivered to their home or to the bookshop. They also sell eBooks for your eReader - and you can even pay with National Book Tokens
What I don't understand is why this isn't available in all bookshops. It seems like something customers would expect now. And it would make Daunt's complaint seem a little quaint. He could have online browsing, so why criticise it? A high street bookshop can provide everything an online seller can plus more.
The only thing is that Gardners perhaps don't deal with publishers under a certain size and they asked for a massive discount when we looked into signing up with them. I believe it was over 60%, and we also give authors 10% of cover price royalties. Waterstones talked to me and put our books on their hub without this huge discount, and I've been pleased with how supportive they've been.
But would the Hive help publishers like us, if Gardners only deal with publishers who can provide higher selling books at higher discounts? We're with Central Books, who will act as distributors for smaller presses. We publish poetry as well as literary fiction so we need this. Does the Hive work for other distributors like Central Books, ie does it show all books registered with Nielson, or just those stocked by Gardners? I know it can be done via Gardners because Waterstones stock our books by ordering via Gardners and Central. So presumably our books could be ordered on the Hive in the same way.
How can I see which bookshops use the Hive?
I've taken a look at the Hive and it's not exactly what I meant. It seems to have limitations. As a customer I would like a screen in each shop where I could select from all the books registered with Nielsen if I couldn't find what I wanted on the shelves. And I would like the book delivered to me at home if I couldn't find it on the shelves, rather than the bookshop having to wait for it from their wholesaler. Some wholesalers take too long to deliver the books to shops, and then I'd have to make a second journey.
If other online sellers can do this I think bookshops could, and it would combine with traditional selling methods to offer me something I'd really like as a customer.
I can see the problem with this, but it would make me go into bookshops. It might seem that customers would compare the prices on the bookshops online database to those of Amazon etc, but I would trust the bookshop more. Amazon often takes orders but doesn't deliver. So I'd be willing to pay a bit more than the Amazon prices, knowing my poetry and literary fiction really would arrive.
There is and never will be a way for Waterstones stores to compete with Amazon who are lightyears ahead when it comes to the website etc.. I am a very experienced bookseller and am very aware of the 'showrooming' problem. It was always going to be that way. The real problem is that in the UK there is a culture, not to say obsession with cheapness - not only books, but also food - so you'll always get people who don't assess the real value of a book against a couple of drinks or a burger, neither of which give any benefit for more than a few minutes. A book not only lasts for a couple of weeks reading, but it also stays with you, you learn and experience through it. But do the punters care? When the 3x2 was still going, people often really wanted a book but wouldn't buy it unless it was in the offer and they tried to haggle for it.
So, no, James Daunt can't get off his .... and compete with such a small minded and warped sense of values from that type of British book buyer. The other negative fall-out from this 'everything has to be the cheapest', no matter what its benefits for people's life education, is that kids get into the same frame of mind : Cheap is best. It also means that they don't treasure books any longer - that's sadder than anything. Part of my work is with kids and students and it's getting harder to get them to see value beyond money in anything.