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Charity retailers deny damaging indies
15.11.11 | Lisa Campbell
The Charity Retail Association has denied it is responsible for damaging high street booksellers but said independent retailers need "greater help" in the current climate.
Last Friday (11th November) the BA called on the government to end tax and business rate concessions for charity bookshops, saying that they represent "unfair competition" to high street booksellers.
Today (15th November) the CRA argued competition from the internet and supermarkets coupled with the recession had had a greater impact on high street booksellers than charity bookshops.
It said: “Charity shops are not responsible for the challenges faced by independent booksellers . . . We think that independent retailers could be supported in a variety of ways without penalising charity shops, which raise around £200 million for a huge range of causes in the UK every year, and we would support greater help for independent booksellers in the current economic climate.”
Tim Godfray, chief executive of the BA, last week said the charity retail sector provided bookshops with "unfair" competition.
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What is the point of having a comments section when they get removed ??
My original comment has obviously stirred up the ten o'clock tea party.
Hi Clive
Your comment was removed accidentally and I have been searching for it in the system in vain - no conspiracy involved! And we have amended the above story to be more accurate. Thanks, Katie
Their comment "competition from the internet and supermarkets coupled with the recession had had a greater impact on high street booksellers than charity bookshops." admits they *do* have an impact then?
I am very disappointed that a news-sheet which purports to report the views of the booktrade should be so slapdash in their reportage.
For many many years independent high street retailers have held very strong opinions on the charity shop issue. (My own views were documented on TheBookGuide as a result of discussions on the (old) Bookfinder lists in 2003 - I would have added a link but TheBookseller comments system classifies it as spam).
I'll make no further comments on this, or any other issue, as I seriously doubt the credibility of TheBookseller to accurately report and reflect the views of our trade.
Indies - please start competing, and stop whinging. Its unreasonable to expect no competition, already this morning I've read that you think publishers should redirect schools orders to you and now this. Seriously, start competing.
The CRA states "We think that independent retailers could be supported in a variety of ways without penalising charity shops".
I would be interested to know what exactly is this "variety of ways"?
On the subject of charity shops, I do think that there should be a cap per population. For example, I live in a town (pop circa 7,000) which has 5 charity shops, rumour of a 6th soon to be appearing. This is far too many and prevents indies of all hues from attempting to establish a foothold. (Incidentally, I donate to charity every year, but only to one particular shop). Will Mary Portas address this in her much anticipated report?
Of course what independent bookshops offer, and charity bookshops by and large can't, is a bespoke bookselling service. It is this that should be upheld, cherished and celebrated. And then there's the added value that you get from thriving bookshops: author events, open-mic, exhibitions, hub of the community etc. In a nutshell, a broadening of the mind and all that entails.
I suppose it largely depends on how much we, as a society, value "the word" in all its guises and the manner in which it is disseminated.
Oh, and supermarkets should be banned from selling books. I find it difficult to appeciate a book when there's the spectacle of processed sausage lingering in the corner of my eye. That's just my opinion though.
Quite so.
I applaud Clive Keeble's decision to cease commenting on the Bookseller website.
The Charity shops should have rates relief reduced
but on the basis of the number of shops they have
so the local Hospice who may have only the one
is not hit as much as Heart Foundation and Oxfam
who have a more comemrical stance and also empoly
people as District Managers,have several warehouses
and in effect commerical operations.
The prob in our area is Charity bags because of the
local council is so slow to catch them.In our area it
is only one licensed per week but l had three so far
through the door this week.
Some are "pirates" and fakes.If you give to a shop
then that does not happen. So they do have their uses.
Hold on a moment. There's competition and there's competition.
A) Send me free stock
B) Give me volunteers who work for nothing
C) Let me have 80% discount on rates
D) Reduced rent
and I'll compete.
In fact even given all the above Oxfam's return on their free book stock etc etc is pathetically small.
Come on Clive, we all value your comments and we all know The Bookseller is a comic. So where's the beef ?
Didn't you do this about a year ago? Are you going to keep your promise this time? (not expecting an answer)
an even more serious effect of the charity shops has been the disppearance of so many secondhand book shops - a valuable source of out-of-print titles for specialist interest books particularly. Charity shops are only interested in books that look like new or have clear antiquarian value. I know of donations being cherry-picked and the bulk sent to recycling or dumped - despite the fact that they included titles which a specialist dealer would have jumped at. Too often homes have to be cleared at short notice and a lifetimes books 'got rid of'. Finding a second hand dealer prepared to take them is now very difficult and charity shops seem the solution - but sadly this can lead to the rubbish dump because there is no system for handling books of real value that will not move quickly off the shelves.
Libraries which used to welcome gifts of books now seem to want to get rid of them. So many libraries (if they survive), are removing titles and reducing reserve stock. If a book looks worn they don't want to know!
Please, instead of sitting there moaning have a look at just what is happening out there in the real world at the moment.
That is why things are not selling in shops, it has little to do with Charity Shops, Supermarkets or Independent book sellers.
Would you pay a ridiculous amount of hard earned money for a book, when you might not have a job next month ?
How kind Pixie, I think I actually prefer Clive's idea that we are a 'news-sheet'. I can confirm that Clive did boycott the comments area for a period earlier this year, that time over the line we took on an Amazon story. We will welcome him back in due course, if only because he is so assiduous at pointing out our many inadequacies.
Can anyone explain why the CRA's website is SOOOOOOO much better than that of the Booksellers Association?
It is about time someone raised the issue of unfair competition from charity shops. We are an independent secondhand bookshop and now have 4 charity shops within a few hundred yards all selling books. They pay no rates whatsoever - the council gives an extra 20% relief on top of the mandatory 80% - i.e. they get 100% relief, they only pay the manager of the shop - everyone else is a volunteer, they do not pay for their book stock and they get tax concessions as well. one sells books (all types) at 3 for a pound. How on earth do we compete with that?
Thanks to the above we have seen 70% of our paperback fiction trade disappear and have had to make our one long-term employee redundant - so less money in the local economy, they pay no rates and little tax so less money in government coffers. I have no problem with fair competition but the current situation amounts to government subsidy of charities - i.e. our taxes are higher because they don't pay. Incidentally the average salary for a charity executive in 2009 was over £70,000 (Croners survey) and very few charities achieve more than 40% of donations to final cause with many as low as 10% (Charity commision). There is a huge hdden economic and social cost to the subsidies charities receive. Maybe the BA should take the matter to the matter to law aren't subsidies against European competition law?
I'll try. Charity retail is a very successful and growing retail sector so perhaps they are funded by their members generously enough to afford high class website development. Whether this would be a laudable use of money which has, albeit in a roundabout way, been raised by donations and rates concessions etc, is for others to judge.
Sorry Martin but I don't share your views.
The BA has financial resources which it chooses not to spend. Income from the various commercial activities supplements membership fees and then of course there is all the money held on deposit. It's a poor reflection on the BA and its management that in todays world they can't invest just a few thousand, and it is no more than that, in presenting themselves as a professional organisation on the internet.
It's a shame really because it simply reinforces the view that the BA is completely out of touch when maybe they aren't, then again maybe they are....
I think there may be a misunderstanding here. The BA's operational income and expenses are separate from Book Tokens and are pretty tight. As the membership shrinks in number, so does income from both subscriptions and commercial revenue, so it is probably sensible to be prudent in times like this. Book Tokens does indeed have deposits which are largely held against potential unredeemed tokens. Perhaps the BA website could be sharper; I'm no longer a member so I don't use it. Have you suggested it to them?
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