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BBC defends genre fiction coverage
20.04.11 | Graeme Neill
The BBC is broadcasting an item on “The Culture Show” about science fiction next month, in the wake of a row about the broadcaster’s approach to genre fiction.
HarperCollins author Stephen Hunt wrote a letter to the BBC this week, attacking it for its coverage of science fiction, fantasy and horror during "Culture Show" special “The Books We Really Read”. The programme, hosted by Sue Perkins during its World Book Night coverage last month, looked at commercial fiction in the UK. However, Hunt’s letter, which has now been signed by 85 authors including Michael Moorcock, Iain M Banks and Greg Bear, said the programme ignored genre fiction.The letter complained of a "sneering derogatory tone levelled against commercial fiction" and a "narrow focus on a single genre".
Quercus’ Jo Fletcher said she felt the areas have been dismissed by many among the mainstream press, not just the BBC. She referred to the likes of Justin Cronin’s The Passage, Alice Sebold’s The Lovely Bones and Kate Mosse’s Labyrinth, all of which have science fiction, horror or fantasy tropes.
Fletcher said: “We go straight back to Terry Pratchett here of course. This country’s greatest satirist is cordially ignored by the literati because he uses the trappings of fantasy to explore the ludicrosities of our world. If it’s got elves or goblins in it these days it can’t possibly be literature.”
HarperFiction publishing director Jane Johnson said: “The area is completely overlooked when it comes to literary prizes; but then so (until last year) was historial fiction and crime fiction. In fact, all the sorts of books that people really do like to read.”
However, Julie Crisp, editorial director at Tor, defended the BBC’s programming. She said: “If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003], The Lord of the Rings was the best-loved book, and there was a good selection of science fiction and fantasy in the top 20. Even now, the BBC broadcast the sci-fi show “Seventh Dimension” on Radio Four Extra. So I think there is support among the mainstream media, but it may not be as much as the fans would like. They are a passionate bunch.”
A BBC spokesperson said it was committed to a broad range of books programming, and furthermore defended “The Books We Really Read” as “an irreverent but enthusiastic authored film”.



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"They are a passionate bunch."? Does that mean we're more noise than numbers?
I welcome the BBC's offer of doing 'an item' on Sf, but really, I think, what we are looking for here is more than a one off item, but a regular look at the golden nuggets that are coming through the various genres. If the universities are happy to include sf, fantasy and horror in thier English literature degrees, then why can't the critics give it the same level of respect?
"However, Julie Crisp, editorial director at Tor, defended the BBC’s programming. She said: “If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003], The Lord of the Rings was the best-loved book, and there was a good selection of science fiction and fantasy in the top 20. Even now, the BBC broadcast the sci-fi show “Seventh Dimension” on Radio Four Extra."
I think this is an incredibly dismissive response. Using the justification of programming aired in 2003 to justify your programming in 2011 is pretty lame. If the BBC really do want to make this the ‘year of books’, then they need to ensure that all genres that people read are represented in their programming and coverage, not just traditional forms of Fiction.
We all know there are loads of fabulous genre Fiction titles released every year that get completely overlooked during the awards’ season and by the mainstream media, and it's not about us being 'a passionate bunch' (read: a bunch of overexcited nerds), it is the fact that there is still a massive snobbery in the book world that Genre Fiction can't also be Literary Fiction. Until this changes, I daresay we’ll just see more of the same.
It always amuses me that authors like Iain (M) Banks and JG Ballard are feted for their "mainstream" fiction work but their equally excellent Science Fiction is practically ignored. It just shows ignorance on the literarti's behalf. Supernatural romance titles (not my favourite, I'll admit) regularly out sell Will Self and Martin Amis. Genre fiction of all sorts is now the new mainstream, they just don't like to admit it.
Genre fiction can be literary fiction - it just generally isn't.
A SF culture show is welcome, but feels token. While I agree with Julie that the Beeb is not overly sneering towards SF/Fantasy/Horror (their flagship drama offering is overtly SF after all, and most of their best exports are also genre related), that doesn't excuse the snobbery of the culture show and particularly the poor programming accompanying WBN. But then WBN embraced the same snobbery by concentrating on largely "literary" novels, with a couple of exceptions. But I am surprised that the editor of Tor would say anything like this given their output, almost celebrating this marginalisation. It's not helpful really, in an argument where genre classification seems to marginalise good writing in these areas, writing which should be equally celebrated and which has suitably made bestselling authors out of many. Populist doesn't mean "crap", regardless of the very few Dan Brown's out there. If you look at the last few years' nominees for the Orange Prize, you could write their sales figures down on a postage stamp and that's with lots of publicity behind them, and not a single genre novel among them. Most of the writers on the Stephen Hunt petition exceed greatly the sales figures for those who feature on the Orange prize, or even Manbooker lists, so is this kind of snobbery and sneering the literati's idea of self-preservation? I thought Culture was something everyone could embrace rather than making one thing accessible by default whilst sneering at another; maybe the Beeb should chane the title of the show? God forbid that the likes of China Mieville or Iain (M) Banks are short-listed, or even win a top "literary prize", then the likes of the Culture Show would have to air more than one genre related show every year.
It reminds me somewhat of how comedies and their actors are routinely ignored by the Oscars. The Golden Globes redresses the balance somewhat by having a specific categories for comedy (lumped in with musicals), but this misses the point.
Although, this did give us that priceless moment in 2004 when Bill Murray won Best Actor (Comedy/Musical) for Lost in Translation. In his speech, completely deadpan, he said:
"I think it's too often we forget our brothers on the other side of the aisle - the dramatic actors. And I'd just like to say without them, where would our war, our misery, and our psychological dramas come from? Let's not forget them tonight."
Zing!
Am I the only to spot the hole in the logic where the BBC says "If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003], The Lord of the Rings was the best-loved book", and then utterly proceeds to ignore fantasy, science fiction and horror duing an entire night of TV devoted to books?
What? It's so big we just forgot it?
As the great thinker Homer would say... DOH!
Of course we should all welcome a Culture Show science fiction special, while at the same time wanting our books to appeal to general readers and not just some well-defined niche audience. As with the Ballard comment above, I’ve lost count of the number of times people have said to me, “I never read any science fiction, but I love your books”.
Banks’ recent novel Transition was published here without the M. despite its parallel world science fiction premise, yet in the US it came out with the M. Does that mean only his Culture novels now merit the M. in the UK? Yet these are the most magnificent pieces of writing about a future potential human utopian civilization to be found. Who wouldn’t want to live in the Culture, which has so much to say about the hangups of contemporary society?
When the general public go mad for Stieg Larsson, are people thinking they must buy this blockbuster “crime fiction” novel, or do they just want a well-crafted story – the unputdownable read we authors all hope to be able to pen? I’m baffled that people conflate science fiction with fantasy (and now horror) in the first place and, in my general day-to-day life think I would never dream of reading a “fantasy” novel full of elves and goblins. Yet I devoured The Lord of the Rings as a kid (who didn’t?) and am nowadays thought one of Harry Potter’s biggest fans (and there are lots of those). In the end, it’s about the brilliance of the writing and the story, regardless of genre.
The separation of literary and commercial fiction has always been a strange one. In an era when we have to fight harder than ever to defend the relevance of the book compared with other art or entertainment forms, everyone who loves books would be wise to focus the wider public’s gaze on those titles, of all genres, that people will find engaging and popular.
Genres are defined by booksellers. Even if the publisher/writer wants it shelved in one spot, it often gets shelved in another.
With everything moving online, this will change.
On Amazon at least, readers can "tag" books, and vote other tags as useful or not. So that even if a writer/publisher puts it in the Science Fiction section, readers may "move" it to Horror.
They can also tag books with non-genre tags such as "racy", "summer read", "very educational", and so on.
I think we will see a lot more of this in the future. Whether this means genres will disappear, or become further Balkanized, is hard to tell at this point. But the good thing is, it will be decided by the readers, rather than the top-down process we have at the moment, which causes such problems for writers who don't easily fit in one genre or another.
doh!
All fiction is genre fiction. Plain and simple. We, as part of our human interactions, tell one another stories, true or feigned. Every type of fiction is valid, from the day to day stories of ordinary lives to high fantasy, fiction of the American Old West, or stories that take humanity to the stars.
I'm afraid the BBC's default standpoint on genre isn't unlike much of the media. More people watch Doctor Who every week than attend football matches yet Doctor Who fans are the minority geeks? Look at the top films and books and they are filled with horror and science fiction - yet some reviewers, publishers etc feel that this is beneath them. Thank goodness the viewers don't! I'm a horror writer, and independent (ie, self-pubished) so I have two prejudices to deal with - but thankfully not from readers, who are just bothered about whether the book is good or not. My horror novel, The Well has more 4/5-star ratings on Amazon than many mainstream books and I'm grateful that readers don't share many of these petty hang-ups. But it's good to see the BBC has bowed to some pressure, but I'd like to see that grow from being a one-off.
The BBC also seen to have forgotten another key feature of the Big Read as I seem to recall that the books were voted for by the public? In which case, even more shame that they dismissed the crime and sf genres in favour of those perceived to be more literary.
There was a Gold Dagger-nominated crime author's name on the open letter sent to the BBC, as well as some children's authors, too.
No doubt made angry by the Martin Amis comments on the BBC shortly before this protest blew up - you know, that anyone who writes fiction for kids is brain-damaged. I guess that includes me too, then!
I doubt one can really put all the blame on the BBC as it starts with the publishers whose catalogues are divided into categories. Then the booksellers join in. I am always amused that they have a section called "Fiction" and then others called "S/F and Fantasy", "Crime", etc. The message is that the genres are not fiction. Yet they are schizophrenic as George Orwell goes into the Fiction section as do Doris Lessing's later novels and both these are usually missing from the S/F and Fantasy shelves. Guy Gavriel Kay is recognised as an excellent writer and novelist in Canada and Europe despite writing historical fantasy but here, if you were looking for a good read but did not think of yourself as one of the "geeks" who read S/F and Fantasy, you would never discover his books. If the publishers and the booksellers cannot introduce genre writers to the general public, what hope of the BBC doing so?
>>She said: “If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003],<<
Programming from 8 years ago is supposed to count?
>>Even now, the BBC broadcast the sci-fi show “Seventh Dimension” on Radio Four Extra.<<
Or this? (Not to mention that the discussion is books, not media--or that of course they'll air sci-fi programming, because it makes money.) We're talking about genres that rang from Plato's UTOPIA and Rabelais' GARGANTUA and PANTAGRUEL to the works of Edgar Allen Poe and H. G. Wells to the work of Greg Bear, Samuel R. Delaney, Stephen King, Clive Barker, Diana Wynne Jones, Philip Pullman, and Terry Pratchett.
Virtually all of us read fantasy as children--talking animals, fairy tales, wild things, myths and legends--and yet the literati who sneer at genre fiction seem like people who are so terrified they'll repeat something in their pasts that they'll say anything to deny it. What they deny is their childhoods, and the love of readers for the adventure of pure imagination.
I emailed World Book Night about their biased selection and received no reply; no real surprise.
As to the Beeb, they can't seem to get their heads round the difference between "sci-fi" and science fiction. Anything they do will likely be a piss-take with a Doctor Who promoting slant...
I say this as an outspoken fan of genre: outspoken genre fans need to pick their battles better.
Complaining, en masse, to the home of Doctor Who (have we already forgotten that we proclaimed the BBC the saviour of genre in 2005?), doesn't make us seem any more mainstream or mature. Why don't we focus on more legitimate areas of complaint, like the Booker Prize?
Independent does not equal self-published. There are dozens of independent publishers around, not tied to the massive conglomerates, that have a distinct identity based around editorial quality, high production values and not merely vanity publication. I'm thinking of the likes of PS Publishing, Morrigan Books, etc.
Julie Crisp's comment is curious, not as the attack on genre fans it has been interpreted as, but for its use of ambiguous data.
Yes, the Big Read selected various genre titles but that was popular vote rather than BBC selection. I could argue that the BBC has highlighted the popularity of genre fiction with The Big Read or equally that it has subsequently ignored that popularity.
Similarly, praise the BBC for an SF serial, good, but note it gets hidden away on Radio 4 Extra.
I recall The Culture Show profiling Kazuo Ishiguro around the publication of Never Let Me Go, but not similar pieces on Ian McDonald or Lauren Beukes. Wouldn't a scattering of such pieces be more constructive than a one off ghetto special?
"They are a passionate bunch."? Does that mean we're more noise than numbers?
I welcome the BBC's offer of doing 'an item' on Sf, but really, I think, what we are looking for here is more than a one off item, but a regular look at the golden nuggets that are coming through the various genres. If the universities are happy to include sf, fantasy and horror in thier English literature degrees, then why can't the critics give it the same level of respect?
"However, Julie Crisp, editorial director at Tor, defended the BBC’s programming. She said: “If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003], The Lord of the Rings was the best-loved book, and there was a good selection of science fiction and fantasy in the top 20. Even now, the BBC broadcast the sci-fi show “Seventh Dimension” on Radio Four Extra."
I think this is an incredibly dismissive response. Using the justification of programming aired in 2003 to justify your programming in 2011 is pretty lame. If the BBC really do want to make this the ‘year of books’, then they need to ensure that all genres that people read are represented in their programming and coverage, not just traditional forms of Fiction.
We all know there are loads of fabulous genre Fiction titles released every year that get completely overlooked during the awards’ season and by the mainstream media, and it's not about us being 'a passionate bunch' (read: a bunch of overexcited nerds), it is the fact that there is still a massive snobbery in the book world that Genre Fiction can't also be Literary Fiction. Until this changes, I daresay we’ll just see more of the same.
Genre fiction can be literary fiction - it just generally isn't.
It always amuses me that authors like Iain (M) Banks and JG Ballard are feted for their "mainstream" fiction work but their equally excellent Science Fiction is practically ignored. It just shows ignorance on the literarti's behalf. Supernatural romance titles (not my favourite, I'll admit) regularly out sell Will Self and Martin Amis. Genre fiction of all sorts is now the new mainstream, they just don't like to admit it.
A SF culture show is welcome, but feels token. While I agree with Julie that the Beeb is not overly sneering towards SF/Fantasy/Horror (their flagship drama offering is overtly SF after all, and most of their best exports are also genre related), that doesn't excuse the snobbery of the culture show and particularly the poor programming accompanying WBN. But then WBN embraced the same snobbery by concentrating on largely "literary" novels, with a couple of exceptions. But I am surprised that the editor of Tor would say anything like this given their output, almost celebrating this marginalisation. It's not helpful really, in an argument where genre classification seems to marginalise good writing in these areas, writing which should be equally celebrated and which has suitably made bestselling authors out of many. Populist doesn't mean "crap", regardless of the very few Dan Brown's out there. If you look at the last few years' nominees for the Orange Prize, you could write their sales figures down on a postage stamp and that's with lots of publicity behind them, and not a single genre novel among them. Most of the writers on the Stephen Hunt petition exceed greatly the sales figures for those who feature on the Orange prize, or even Manbooker lists, so is this kind of snobbery and sneering the literati's idea of self-preservation? I thought Culture was something everyone could embrace rather than making one thing accessible by default whilst sneering at another; maybe the Beeb should chane the title of the show? God forbid that the likes of China Mieville or Iain (M) Banks are short-listed, or even win a top "literary prize", then the likes of the Culture Show would have to air more than one genre related show every year.
It reminds me somewhat of how comedies and their actors are routinely ignored by the Oscars. The Golden Globes redresses the balance somewhat by having a specific categories for comedy (lumped in with musicals), but this misses the point.
Although, this did give us that priceless moment in 2004 when Bill Murray won Best Actor (Comedy/Musical) for Lost in Translation. In his speech, completely deadpan, he said:
"I think it's too often we forget our brothers on the other side of the aisle - the dramatic actors. And I'd just like to say without them, where would our war, our misery, and our psychological dramas come from? Let's not forget them tonight."
Zing!
Am I the only to spot the hole in the logic where the BBC says "If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003], The Lord of the Rings was the best-loved book", and then utterly proceeds to ignore fantasy, science fiction and horror duing an entire night of TV devoted to books?
What? It's so big we just forgot it?
As the great thinker Homer would say... DOH!
doh!
Of course we should all welcome a Culture Show science fiction special, while at the same time wanting our books to appeal to general readers and not just some well-defined niche audience. As with the Ballard comment above, I’ve lost count of the number of times people have said to me, “I never read any science fiction, but I love your books”.
Banks’ recent novel Transition was published here without the M. despite its parallel world science fiction premise, yet in the US it came out with the M. Does that mean only his Culture novels now merit the M. in the UK? Yet these are the most magnificent pieces of writing about a future potential human utopian civilization to be found. Who wouldn’t want to live in the Culture, which has so much to say about the hangups of contemporary society?
When the general public go mad for Stieg Larsson, are people thinking they must buy this blockbuster “crime fiction” novel, or do they just want a well-crafted story – the unputdownable read we authors all hope to be able to pen? I’m baffled that people conflate science fiction with fantasy (and now horror) in the first place and, in my general day-to-day life think I would never dream of reading a “fantasy” novel full of elves and goblins. Yet I devoured The Lord of the Rings as a kid (who didn’t?) and am nowadays thought one of Harry Potter’s biggest fans (and there are lots of those). In the end, it’s about the brilliance of the writing and the story, regardless of genre.
The separation of literary and commercial fiction has always been a strange one. In an era when we have to fight harder than ever to defend the relevance of the book compared with other art or entertainment forms, everyone who loves books would be wise to focus the wider public’s gaze on those titles, of all genres, that people will find engaging and popular.
Genres are defined by booksellers. Even if the publisher/writer wants it shelved in one spot, it often gets shelved in another.
With everything moving online, this will change.
On Amazon at least, readers can "tag" books, and vote other tags as useful or not. So that even if a writer/publisher puts it in the Science Fiction section, readers may "move" it to Horror.
They can also tag books with non-genre tags such as "racy", "summer read", "very educational", and so on.
I think we will see a lot more of this in the future. Whether this means genres will disappear, or become further Balkanized, is hard to tell at this point. But the good thing is, it will be decided by the readers, rather than the top-down process we have at the moment, which causes such problems for writers who don't easily fit in one genre or another.
All fiction is genre fiction. Plain and simple. We, as part of our human interactions, tell one another stories, true or feigned. Every type of fiction is valid, from the day to day stories of ordinary lives to high fantasy, fiction of the American Old West, or stories that take humanity to the stars.
I'm afraid the BBC's default standpoint on genre isn't unlike much of the media. More people watch Doctor Who every week than attend football matches yet Doctor Who fans are the minority geeks? Look at the top films and books and they are filled with horror and science fiction - yet some reviewers, publishers etc feel that this is beneath them. Thank goodness the viewers don't! I'm a horror writer, and independent (ie, self-pubished) so I have two prejudices to deal with - but thankfully not from readers, who are just bothered about whether the book is good or not. My horror novel, The Well has more 4/5-star ratings on Amazon than many mainstream books and I'm grateful that readers don't share many of these petty hang-ups. But it's good to see the BBC has bowed to some pressure, but I'd like to see that grow from being a one-off.
Independent does not equal self-published. There are dozens of independent publishers around, not tied to the massive conglomerates, that have a distinct identity based around editorial quality, high production values and not merely vanity publication. I'm thinking of the likes of PS Publishing, Morrigan Books, etc.
The BBC also seen to have forgotten another key feature of the Big Read as I seem to recall that the books were voted for by the public? In which case, even more shame that they dismissed the crime and sf genres in favour of those perceived to be more literary.
There was a Gold Dagger-nominated crime author's name on the open letter sent to the BBC, as well as some children's authors, too.
No doubt made angry by the Martin Amis comments on the BBC shortly before this protest blew up - you know, that anyone who writes fiction for kids is brain-damaged. I guess that includes me too, then!
I doubt one can really put all the blame on the BBC as it starts with the publishers whose catalogues are divided into categories. Then the booksellers join in. I am always amused that they have a section called "Fiction" and then others called "S/F and Fantasy", "Crime", etc. The message is that the genres are not fiction. Yet they are schizophrenic as George Orwell goes into the Fiction section as do Doris Lessing's later novels and both these are usually missing from the S/F and Fantasy shelves. Guy Gavriel Kay is recognised as an excellent writer and novelist in Canada and Europe despite writing historical fantasy but here, if you were looking for a good read but did not think of yourself as one of the "geeks" who read S/F and Fantasy, you would never discover his books. If the publishers and the booksellers cannot introduce genre writers to the general public, what hope of the BBC doing so?
>>She said: “If you looked at The Big Read programming [in 2003],<<
Programming from 8 years ago is supposed to count?
>>Even now, the BBC broadcast the sci-fi show “Seventh Dimension” on Radio Four Extra.<<
Or this? (Not to mention that the discussion is books, not media--or that of course they'll air sci-fi programming, because it makes money.) We're talking about genres that rang from Plato's UTOPIA and Rabelais' GARGANTUA and PANTAGRUEL to the works of Edgar Allen Poe and H. G. Wells to the work of Greg Bear, Samuel R. Delaney, Stephen King, Clive Barker, Diana Wynne Jones, Philip Pullman, and Terry Pratchett.
Virtually all of us read fantasy as children--talking animals, fairy tales, wild things, myths and legends--and yet the literati who sneer at genre fiction seem like people who are so terrified they'll repeat something in their pasts that they'll say anything to deny it. What they deny is their childhoods, and the love of readers for the adventure of pure imagination.
I emailed World Book Night about their biased selection and received no reply; no real surprise.
As to the Beeb, they can't seem to get their heads round the difference between "sci-fi" and science fiction. Anything they do will likely be a piss-take with a Doctor Who promoting slant...
I say this as an outspoken fan of genre: outspoken genre fans need to pick their battles better.
Complaining, en masse, to the home of Doctor Who (have we already forgotten that we proclaimed the BBC the saviour of genre in 2005?), doesn't make us seem any more mainstream or mature. Why don't we focus on more legitimate areas of complaint, like the Booker Prize?
Julie Crisp's comment is curious, not as the attack on genre fans it has been interpreted as, but for its use of ambiguous data.
Yes, the Big Read selected various genre titles but that was popular vote rather than BBC selection. I could argue that the BBC has highlighted the popularity of genre fiction with The Big Read or equally that it has subsequently ignored that popularity.
Similarly, praise the BBC for an SF serial, good, but note it gets hidden away on Radio 4 Extra.
I recall The Culture Show profiling Kazuo Ishiguro around the publication of Never Let Me Go, but not similar pieces on Ian McDonald or Lauren Beukes. Wouldn't a scattering of such pieces be more constructive than a one off ghetto special?
Julie Crisp's comment is curious, not as the attack on genre fans it has been interpreted as, but for its use of ambiguous data.
Yes, the Big Read selected various genre titles but that was popular vote rather than BBC selection. I could argue that the BBC has highlighted the popularity of genre fiction with The Big Read or equally that it has subsequently ignored that popularity.
Similarly, praise the BBC for an SF serial, good, but note it gets hidden away on Radio 4 Extra.
I recall The Culture Show profiling Kazuo Ishiguro around the publication of Never Let Me Go, but not similar pieces on Ian McDonald or Lauren Beukes. Wouldn't a scattering of such pieces be more constructive than a one off ghetto special?